Curse

DarkSpirit · Jul 04, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

It's a crapshoot unless there are like 1 or 2 targets left, but then I wouldn't need barbs to take down 2 enemies. I would use it if you can actually control the minion target or something. Without physicals to actually control the damage trigger from barbs and MoP, those slot are better with something else. They are not the worst skills you can bring with a MM but there are probably better options to control the damage better. And I don't run around with 2 MM, no point unless you're in somewhere with lots of bodies to supplies for the 2 MM, like vizunah square for example.

And yes, you can wield a spear on heroes, but why would you when you can wield something more useful like a 20/20 wand. Yea, I'm not going to wield spears just so my caster can trigger barbs..

Bah...faster cast is ok but not crucial for PvE. Faster recharge though is more useful. Besides, spears with +30hp is also nice, unless I am carrying alot of sac skills.

If one of the 2 enemies happen to be a HM boss, Barbs+fiends would finish him in no time. And my dual MM synergize, 1 MM has the expensive fiends, the other provides the energy and meat wall. Corpses are not a problem to a jagged minion bomber. I am sure there are at least 10 to 20 corpses per PvE area to vanquish, in most places.

Shaz · Jul 04, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

I didn't say it was crucial, nothing is crucial in PvE, I said it's more useful than carrying spear just to trigger Barbs + MoP on caster.

Destromath · Jul 04, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Well I was already considering using a secondary minion bomber, and Darkspirit's argument convinced me XD. I changed the FF bar to a Discord bomber and modified the primary bomber to cover condition removal instead.

DarkSpirit · Jul 04, 2008, 03:05 AM // 03:05

This is what I use:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...77&postcount=2

Warriorsrmint · Jul 05, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Looks good, if you and the other human player weren't physical what would you replace barbs with?

DarkSpirit · Jul 05, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Try to add [[Rip Enchantment] somewhere so you have an enchant remover which is very useful in certain areas. Also [[Defile Defenses] if you can but that is not as necessary.

For your high level MM, try to fit in [[Dark Bond], even at level 0 blood, the enchantment lasts longer than its recharge and gives your MM 75% damage reduction.

Destromath · Jul 06, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Try to add [[Rip Enchantment] somewhere so you have an enchant remover which is very useful in certain areas. Also [[Defile Defenses] if you can but that is not as necessary.

For your high level MM, try to fit in [[Dark Bond], even at level 0 blood, the enchantment lasts longer than its recharge and gives your MM 75% damage reduction.

Eh, I'm not a big fan of Dark Bond. It gives only MM 75% damage reduction, but at the cost of the minions which he's trying to keep alive to deal damage. If it worked for the whole party and gave around 20% damage reduction or something, then I would be fine with it though XD. As it is, it's pretty selfish and rarely comes into play with the minion barrier blocking most damage anyway.

I'll probably swap out Ancestor's Rage for Rip Enchantments on the 2 curse bars. Even with Weaken Armor, it barely does anything against most enemies in HM >_<.

As for the Barbs question, it's mainly up to opinion on what else to take. Defile Defenses (like DarkSpirit said) is a pretty decent choice since it only needs to trigger once from autoattacks by minions or party members to get the full effect, and can be spammed around fairly well.

DarkSpirit · Jul 06, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

Eh, I'm not a big fan of Dark Bond. It gives only MM 75% damage reduction, but at the cost of the minions which he's trying to keep alive to deal damage. If it worked for the whole party and gave around 20% damage reduction or something, then I would be fine with it though XD. As it is, it's pretty selfish and rarely comes into play with the minion barrier blocking most damage anyway.

On the other hand, if you dont care to protect your MM, then he will die and lose all his minions and there goes your meat shields and a main source of damage from your heroes. What is the use of keeping all his minions alive while letting your MM die? If your MM is already being clobbered, wouldn't you sacrifice the closest minion to help keep him alive? Afterall if your MM dies, you lose ALL his minions anyway.

So, it is not exactly a crappy skill choice considering that it doesn't even require a single attribute point for a return of 75% damage reduction for a key team member. But if you have a better choice for that skill slot, then that is fine.

Quote:

I'll probably swap out Ancestor's Rage for Rip Enchantments on the 2 curse bars. Even with Weaken Armor, it barely does anything against most enemies in HM >_<.

Yes, Ancestor's Rage at level 10 channeling doesn't do much.

Destromath · Jul 06, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

On the other hand, if you dont care to protect your MM, then he will die and lose all his minions and there goes your meat shields and a main source of damage from your heroes. What is the use of keeping all his minions alive while letting your MM die? If your MM is already being clobbered, wouldn't you sacrifice the closest minion to help keep him alive? Afterall if your MM dies, you lose ALL his minions anyway.

Well how would your backline be getting clobbered in the first place? Off of the top of my head, the 2 standard teams in PvE are physical-heavy and caster-heavy. Against physical-heavy teams, they'll need to first go through the Bone/Shambling/Jagged minions (and maybe a few Fiends in the process). Once they've done that, you only have about 3-4 minions left to take the hits, and those will taper out in no time if he's taking any serious amount of damage. As for caster-heavy groups, your Fiends will die very quickly if they automatically target your backline with AoE spells, and the other minions will also probably get targeted sooner or later. In other words, the MM will only be attacked after most/all of the minion barrier dies out, at which point it becomes useless anyway.

DarkSpirit · Jul 06, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

Well how would your backline be getting clobbered in the first place? Off of the top of my head, the 2 standard teams in PvE are physical-heavy and caster-heavy. Against physical-heavy teams, they'll need to first go through the Bone/Shambling/Jagged minions (and maybe a few Fiends in the process). Once they've done that, you only have about 3-4 minions left to take the hits, and those will taper out in no time if he's taking any serious amount of damage. As for caster-heavy groups, your Fiends will die very quickly if they automatically target your backline with AoE spells, and the other minions will also probably get targeted sooner or later. In other words, the MM will only be attacked after most/all of the minion barrier dies out, at which point it becomes useless anyway.

Unfortunately monsters in HM are smart enough to go around your minions and attack your monks or MM directly instead of only your minions because if your reasoning is right, there no way the MM would die with left over minions. But the truth is MMs DO die sometimes and left over minions DO turn neutral. I find that melee monsters tend to target minions only if they are body blocked from reaching their target, which is why fiends MM also need to bring melee minions to be effective.

If you find that your necro typically dies before his minions, then Dark Bond can be useful, if it is the other way round, then you dont need Dark Bond.

Destromath · Jul 07, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Strange O_o. I've never had a case where monsters bypass minions unless my Olias falls behind while spamming Death Nova or Jagged Bones on minions. Even then, I usually wait for him to catch up unless I want to go through an area as quickly as possible. Along with this, it usually seems that the monsters head straight for minions instead of going for party members in my case.

DarkSpirit · Jul 08, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

Strange O_o. I've never had a case where monsters bypass minions unless my Olias falls behind while spamming Death Nova or Jagged Bones on minions. Even then, I usually wait for him to catch up unless I want to go through an area as quickly as possible. Along with this, it usually seems that the monsters head straight for minions instead of going for party members in my case.

If your MM never ever get hit and never ever dies before his minions do, then you dont need dark bond. Anyway, with 2 MMs, you are probably killing things far too quickly to need it.

Super Igor · Jul 09, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Good concept overall, been using similar stuff for long time now to a great success

But do heroes chain aegis well because when I ran dual aegis chained it manually and never bothered to look if they chain it, and why the hell do you have no WoH on your healing nec and why it doesnt have cure hex? Stupid imo.

Destromath · Jul 10, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

But do heroes chain aegis well because when I ran dual aegis chained it manually and never bothered to look if they chain it, and why the hell do you have no WoH on your healing nec and why it doesnt have cure hex? Stupid imo.

In my experience, the minion bomber tends to chain Aegis pretty well with the prot henchie. He's usually too preoccupied with Death Nova-ing the minions to cast Aegis right away, so the monk takes care of it then. Once it runs out, he usually casts it.

Like I said before, WoH doesn't do much on a bar that will have at least 2 other heals. Why take a strong heal (WoH) and 2 medium heals (Dwayna's and Patient) when you can take 2 strong heals (Dwayna's and Patient) and a medium heal (Ethereal)? The only reason why I would take WoH over HB is to free up space, but the bar doesn't need anything else. As for taking Cure Hex, it's medicore as a hex removal with all of the spam going around usually. Heck, the only reason why I took Spotless Mind was to clear off all hexes on one person rather than doing a medicore job in clearing hexes off of multiple people. That pretty much leaves Cure Hex as a healer, but there's enough defense and healing in the team already.

la_cabra_de_vida · Jul 10, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I like using the traditional 3 man necro team, with a well man and regular rit.

N/Rt [ancestor's rage][splinter weapon][order of pain][strip enchantment][blood ritual][well of power][signet of lost souls][resurrection signet]

Rt/N [ancestor's rage][splinter weapon][destruction][offering of spirit][spirit rift][barbs][mark of pain][resurrection signet]

Super Igor · Jul 10, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Why have AR and SW on a necro if rit does it better, meh just silly.

Super Igor · Jul 10, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

Like I said before, WoH doesn't do much on a bar that will have at least 2 other heals. Why take a strong heal (WoH) and 2 medium heals (Dwayna's and Patient) when you can take 2 strong heals (Dwayna's and Patient) and a medium heal (Ethereal)? The only reason why I would take WoH over HB is to free up space, but the bar doesn't need anything else. As for taking Cure Hex, it's medicore as a hex removal with all of the spam going around usually. Heck, the only reason why I took Spotless Mind was to clear off all hexes on one person rather than doing a medicore job in clearing hexes off of multiple people. That pretty much leaves Cure Hex as a healer, but there's enough defense and healing in the team already.

WoH is one of the best healing elites that what you n/mo does, taking it alongside with imba-spirit will result in great healing powers as opposed to wasting an elite slot on HB that they wont even mantain properly at 0 divine favor, cure hex is a very useful skill to that to high heal it gives, very useful in pve imho, you can take it alongside spotless mind so you would be near;ly immune to hexes, but really, WoH > [email protected] that is totally true, and extrmely powerful healing spell and there is no reason at all not to take it because now you are not freeing up the slot by not taking WoH, you are wasting the slot.

landt007 · Aug 29, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Me and me friend used this build. it was very effective we did UW with it.
so nice one! xD

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 29, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

Nothing else sticks out as being very good for a heal spammer. The only thing that I would consider other than HB is WoH, but HB turns all of your heals into a slightly reduced WoH. Besides, like TheIdiot said, it's still fully maintainable and energy isn't a problem.

why would you bring 3 almost-WoHs that need a 4th skill to be almost-WoHs when you could bring 1 WoH and 3 useful skills?